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Big Basstard
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Topic: Justice and Punishment???? Posted: 26 August 2012 at 11:42am |
I am sure that just about everyone here ....at one time or another...... has thought that there is something wrong with our justice system and what punishments it hands out.
"FAIRNESS" is the altar which we all worship at, but is there "real" fairness where justice and punishment ate doled out in the USA?
If there is ....I can't see it.
Many believe that a sentance in prison for a criminal is a time where this person can be taught that what they have done is wrong and that they can be rehabilitated so that they will never do this or any other crimes again.
I wonder just how old a person has to be.....before they realize that robbing a liquor store......shooting the owner and two customers to death......taking a 16 year old girl hostage.....raping and killing her...throwing her lifeless body in a ditch....and leaving...just to plan their next crime with absolutely no remorse?
..............and when caught.....they have a look on their face like it's "they" who have been wronged!
Needless to say ......those who are too young to know that things like these are wrong are also too small to carry out crimes like these in the first place......all others know that they are wrong, but simply don't care what they do...or might do to harm others by their actions.
So the idea of educating these people as to the wrongs that they are perpatrating against society is absolutely rediculous........ as is the idea of rehabilitation.
Which leads to a punishment phase.......
As far as I can tell the way that people are punished for the crimes that they commit is simply not fair or meaningful.
Let's look at the punishment for what could be considered a "small crime".......SPEEDING.
The punishment for the most part is a fine.......... but are fines really fair?
If you ask a poor person if the $300 fine he got for going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit is fair he would probably say no.....because now he can't eat for a month, but should you ask the same of a millionair....he would probably just smile and say, "Whatever".
Now I am certainly not offering that the millionair should pay more simply because he has more to give.......Hell! If I did then I would start to sound like a liberat dimorat....but there should be a way of punishing law breakers on a consistant level which negates the power of money and makes all people equal in the eyes of the law ................which really doesn't happen now.
Look at these "stars and starletts" who consistantly break the law....yet do not receive the same punishment that some poor kid would be handed.
Sure! They pay some big fines, but most often they never see the inside of a jail .
Hey! I got a solution! Why not do away with all fines?.........and why we're at it....why not do away with jails?
Now I am not offering that we should do away with punishment, because if we did every store in America would get robbed within 24 hours.
How's about we bring back "real justice"......and when it's carried out there is "real punishment" to go along with it!
Maybe a minimal crime would have the offender to wear a sign on his front and back with his name....what they had done...while sweeping a street with a small clown broom?
Certainly no one could object that a court order an offender to report every weekend.....8 hours a day....... wear a bright orange suit and do pick and shovel road work and land reclamation?
How's about the "stocks" at the town square where rotten fruit and veggies could be purchased to throw at those who are set out for all to sneer at?
.........and for more serious crimes........how's about some lashed from the whip... a number of which are commensurate with the severity of the crime?
.....for even more serious crimes.........nothing really says, "we've had enough of you".... more than a good piece if bailing wire with one end wrapped around a strong tree limb and the other around the despised ones neck! 
Each year "we the people" spend billions upon billions to house, feed, educate and make comfortable those who simply want to break every law on the books.
...so why be so gentle with them?
Edited by Big Basstard - 26 August 2012 at 11:44am
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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dontcatchmany
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Posted: 26 August 2012 at 8:09pm |
BB, I hear you.
In the early/mid 1970s I worked for the North Carolina Department of Corrections as a Systems Analyst.......worked just a few hundred feet from the entrance to Central Prison.
One of many projects I worked on was an automated way to aid prison officials in determining where the inmates that came in from the county court systems were to be sent around the state.
Part of that project design process was to sit in on hearings (over about three months) that were basically interviews of inmates. The manual process of interviews was to see the risk potential of sending a particular inmate to one of the many correctional institutions around the state (maybe close to the inmates homes) or to keep them in Central Prision or the other more maximum security institutions.
Over the course of those almost three months of several days a week (I had other duties too) of these hearings/interviews one thing became very evident.
That was that not a single one of the inmates was guilty......in their version and their belief. Helck I remember one inmate who was caught by police jumping on his room mate's head (which was nothing but a bloody pulp) after having stabbed him some 30 + times and he had not a bit of knowledge of his guilt.
Another thing that was so very evident was that not a single one of those animals came close to thinking like any of us who post on NCWATERMAN....or most folks who function pretty well in society. Their brains were functioning very different from most of us here.
At the time, NC had something like 18-20 thousand inmates in a system that was designed for something like 15 thousand, and many dangerous felons were being let free because of overcrowding ....overcrowding guidlines set by the federal government (why was the federal gubment involved any way.....but that is another discussion).
Also at the time the statistics were that within 1 year of being let out on the streets, something like 85-90 percent of inmates were re-incarcerated. Within 2 years, almost 100 percent (something like 98.9) had been brought back into the NC penal system.
Also at that time there was this push to "rehabilitate" these crooks....psychiatrists and psychologist and highly educated and highly paid prison "experts" were called in determine methods of that rehabilitation......my thought was that the money paid for those fools would have been better served to build more and better incarceration facilities.....in other words keep them in prison and work them to death paying the public back for their crimes because very very few would ever amount to anything that did not require public support.
Now, a liberal will say that we should spend all that money because of the very small few who could be "saved". And, I hate the injustice of that situation of a "good" soul going bad. But the money might be better spent to keep folks from ever getting in the situation where they became habitual criminals.
An incarcerated criminal (and many in the making) will not be rehabilitated IMHO. To help alieviate the problem will have to be done by society and family and a host of other factors and not the government. What is the saying...."do the crime and pay the time"
Crime which is against the very wide mores of society need to be punished very severly and very swiftly. I could go on and on, but the liberal mind set of some here would come up with inane garbage.
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Charlie
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Posted: 26 August 2012 at 10:58pm |
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The Constitution protects us against cruel and unusual punishments.
The penalties for a certain crime should be the same for everybody. Race, wealth, position, religion, social standing, and other such things should not be considered when assigning a punishment. We should all be equal under the law. The woman with the scales should stay blindfolded.
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 27 August 2012 at 8:31pm |
Charlie wrote:
The Constitution protects us against cruel and unusual punishments.
The penalties for a certain crime should be the same for everybody. Race, wealth, position, religion, social standing, and other such things should not be considered when assigning a punishment. We should all be equal under the law. The woman with the scales should stay blindfolded.
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"Charlie"
Believe it or not the "protection" under the constitution against cruel and unusual punishment that you have offered is not as stringent as you may believe.
The Supreme Court of the United States of America has made ruling on the 8th amendment that would make liberals just cry their eyes out and scream ......"No Fair"... 
One such case in point ....... a fella who just liked to rob houses was sentanced to life in prison for stealing just $310 bucks.
His case was taken to the Supreme Court and they did not overturn his conviction.
...there are many such cases on the books...
I asked a young guy where I work at who has been convicted of assault aand fined thousands of dollars and has been put on probation for 5 years if he would have rather had a real good bullwhipping and released than what he got from the courts.
He immediately said that he would have rather paid the big money and probation than the whipping.
I asked him if he would ever think of doing what he did "IF" the puinishment was the bullwhip and he said that if it were he would have walked away from the guy who's jaw he broke after being insulted.
Here's the deal........
I believe that the only people who don't want the punishment that I described above are those who believe that they might run afoul of the law and get sentenced to getting their azz kicked.....or strung up by a piece of bailing wire.
Do I speed?....why yes I do.... and therefor I am a law breaker myself. I have never received a ticket for anything, but would I speed if I thought that I could find myself in the stocks in the town square?
Actually! I might still speed.......but that would all probably end when the first rotten tomato hit me in the face.
Do you know that the law provides that no one should face any fine that is excessive.
So how do you gage exactly what is "excessive"?
A guy who makes $7.50 per hour will find a fine of $2000 dollars extremely excessive...while a millionair would just laugh that one off.
Same crime....same fine, but one is extremely excessive.
Is jail time "cruel and unusual" punishment?
How about if when your in there you are sodomized daily.....or like James Earl Ray was stabbed over 20 times when he was in prison....isn't that cruel and unusual punishment?????
So I have to tell you........I really don't believe that the constitution or anything else protects anyone from cruel or unusual punishment.
My way is quick......effective....and doesn't cost the taxpayers of this country no where near what taking care of scum does under our present system.
Plus....I am looking for a new line of work anyway!
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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Charlie
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 12:34am |
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I reject your premise that we worship at the altar of fairness. Life is not fair. It never has been and never will be. We worship at the altar of the laws that treat everybody the same.
I would love to be able to punish people who do me wrong in interesting and diabolic ways. We could tie a rapist up naked between two posts and put him in a room with the girl's relatives who all had knives, blowtorches, bottles of acid, and cattle prods. We could cut off the hands of people who steal even small things. We could kill murderers the same way they killed their victims. Drunk drivers could be thrown from a moving car into traffic. We could cut out the tongues of people who lie. These punishments would be fair. They would give the person a taste of his own medicine or would keep him from ever doing the same thing again.
The founding fathers had seen the horrors of exotic punishments and wanted this country to be a refuge from such barbaric practices. This is not to say that all modern punishments are fun and amusing to the people being punished.
I agree that the rehabilitation philosophy of the civilian justice system (military justice penalties are for punishment and not for rehabilitation) usually does not produce rehabilitated people. It often seems to do just the opposite.
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PiratesAboard
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 7:48am |
Charlie wrote:
"We could kill murderers the same way they killed their victims." Yes ! The lineup of all killings would magically become extremely short once someone knew they will get what they gave, in the manner given.
"I agree that the rehabilitation philosophy of the civilian justice system (military justice penalties are for punishment and not for rehabilitation) usually does not produce rehabilitated people. It often seems to do just the opposite." The college of crime and diploma is the reward in our penal system. Not many entering it come short of an education they didn't have before entering.
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"Winners win, and losers make excuses. It's as simple as that." Joe Garagiola
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downeaster
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 8:52am |
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we have the best justice system that money can buy. If you have the money then one can usually get off when caught doing a crime. If you don't have the money then you go to prison. Having said that, attorneys make less dollars if all of the criminals were to be kept locked up.
Edited by downeaster - 28 August 2012 at 8:53am
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Charlie
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 10:18am |
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The jury usually decides who is guilty and who is not. The lawyers just try to convince the jury that they should vote one way or the other. More money can buy better lawyers, but ultimately it is a jury that decides if a case ever gets to trial. Better lawyers can, at times, keep a case from going to trial but can not do anything the less expensive lawyers can't do. The better ones may know better how to use the laws to their advantage.
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 5:35pm |
Charlie wrote:
I reject your premise that we worship at the altar of fairness. Life is not fair. It never has been and never will be. We worship at the altar of the laws that treat everybody the same.
I would love to be able to punish people who do me wrong in interesting and diabolic ways. We could tie a rapist up naked between two posts and put him in a room with the girl's relatives who all had knives, blowtorches, bottles of acid, and cattle prods. We could cut off the hands of people who steal even small things. We could kill murderers the same way they killed their victims. Drunk drivers could be thrown from a moving car into traffic. We could cut out the tongues of people who lie. These punishments would be fair. They would give the person a taste of his own medicine or would keep him from ever doing the same thing again.
The founding fathers had seen the horrors of exotic punishments and wanted this country to be a refuge from such barbaric practices. This is not to say that all modern punishments are fun and amusing to the people being punished.
I agree that the rehabilitation philosophy of the civilian justice system (military justice penalties are for punishment and not for rehabilitation) usually does not produce rehabilitated people. It often seems to do just the opposite.
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I can see that you might not understand what "Fairness is the alter at which we all worship".
What it means is that "we all want to be treated fairly"........it doesn't mean that it actually is ever going to happen.
But anyway "Charlie".....you don't seem to "want" what I have offered to ever happen....or am I mistaken?
I survived many a year under the U.C.M.J. ...... at one time it actually inspired me to learn quite a bit about the law and actually study it to one degree or another at two colleges.
I am a person who actually takes an active role......maybe a bit more than most.....on how our country "get's along".
It is my personal belief that if a wave of people were to want change in America...then.... like the idiots who voted in the rectum obama....................."good people" could effect "meaningful change" and actually do somthing good in our country.
...BUT ONLY IF THRY ARE WILLING TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING!!!!!
Here's some "food for thought"............your boss can punish you more for calling him an azzhole than the federal government can for calling the President that.......or for committing many crimes.
Your boss can fire you.....which takes away your paycheck, heathcare, & pension... and it's forever....at least at that company anyway.
Should a sniveling Li'l Toad decide to get drunk and drive a vehicle while snockered....he could get pulled over by the Police and upon being pronounced a drunk....he can call every cop there an "azzhole" and ...if it's his first time.......he'll get a fine....loose his license for a while and get sent about his way.
....and what did he learn?..................... NOTHING AT ALL!
I have done quite a bit of "face to face" polling on this subject and it appears that everyone....save one idiot.......... came right out and said that they would be much less willing to committ any crimes at all "IF" the punishments were as I described.
I also asked if they would be for a syaaytem such as I described "IF" it were a propostion vote........all save one said that they would vote to enact such measures.
When I asked the "save one" participant in my poll if he had ever run afoul of the law...his response was , "4X's"..........but he was treated unfairly the 3 times he was placed behind bars.
It appears to me that the only people who are against my idea of justice and punishment are those who think to themselfs that "MAYBE".....just maybe they will be at the business end of the jailers bullwhip or even the piece of bailing wire sometime in the future........or maybe they have scummy relatives who have a perpensity to running afoul of the laws of our land!
In many ways they appear to be on par with the scum who vote for the demorat party!
....after all..........who in their right mind would vote for that piece of sheet who's in office now.....unless they "PLANNED" on being on welfare .....or had scum relatives who planned on living on the backs of "WE THE PEOPLE"!
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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Charlie
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 6:39pm |
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Thank you for your service. I had a uniform in my own closet for 12 years. You are, however, not thinking very clearly.
So, you want to eliminate fines and prisons. You want to have felons doing community service on the weekends. You want people to be punished for calling BHO or cops a bad name. You want more serious crimes all to be punished by the death penalty. You want public humiliation and public cruelty to be legitimate penalties for moderately serious crimes. That seems to be what you want from your posts.
Your idea of what "fair" is borders on revenge rather than punishment.
No, I have not see much of what you offer that I want. I will take the Constitution and not your twisted ideas.
I am not a criminal. I do not intend to become a criminal. I have no relatives in jail. I did not vote for BHO and consider him to be a dangerous person.
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 8:34pm |
Charlie wrote:
Thank you for your service. I had a uniform in my own closet for 12 years. You are, however, not thinking very clearly.
So, you want to eliminate fines and prisons. You want to have felons doing community service on the weekends. You want people to be punished for calling BHO or cops a bad name. You want more serious crimes all to be punished by the death penalty. You want public humiliation and public cruelty to be legitimate penalties for moderately serious crimes. That seems to be what you want from your posts.
Your idea of what "fair" is borders on revenge rather than punishment.
No, I have not see much of what you offer that I want. I will take the Constitution and not your twisted ideas.
I am not a criminal. I do not intend to become a criminal. I have no relatives in jail. I did not vote for BHO and consider him to be a dangerous person. |
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"Charlie"......
Well gee wizz..... it appears that you are offering somewhat of your own idea of "fairness" when you say that what I am posting is vacant of clear thought and that my ideas are twisted.
And that's fine Chuck.....except that you have allowed your liberal emotions to get you fantasizing that in some way I would want peeople to be punished if they told obama to "scratch his stinkin azz". 
...you have also exaggerated quite a bit as well.......or maybe "cherry picked.....with a twist" might be kinder
But anyway........ what I have offered is not "revenge" as your knee jerk emotions have lead you down the tear soaked trail...............of your own making
Far from it Chuck!
Maybe you like throwing your money away on things that don't need money thrown at .....but instead some brute force would get better results.....that is unless you're a demorat...in which case "throwing money" at every problem is the only way they believe things can get done............like enslaving blacks into poverty plying them with welfare, free cell phones and making them your voting slaves.
One thing you did get right is "Public Humiliation" for lesser crimes!
Hell! I bet the next time you go 10 miles per hour over the speed limit and have to wear a sign....both front and back offering your name and offense....sweeping the sidewalk with a clown broom........you might think twice before you do it again......and no fine.
And maybe you are against rapist and murders being hung in the town square?
Why? Why would anyone want someone to live who raped their 6 year old daughter ? So they could be releases 20 years later and now rape their 26 year old daughter?
No Chuckie!....it's you who's.....as you put it........"Twisted"!
....and thank you also for your service!
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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Charlie
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 9:43pm |
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You are confused about several things. Fairness is not the same thing as equality or justice. We worship at the altar of the laws that should guarantee equaiilty and justice for all. It does not guarantee fairness. The laws and justice system often fall short of this goal, but the goal is still intact. The system is designed to protect the innocent by dealing with law breakers in a way that should keep them from harming people again.
Do you really think innocent people would be better protected by giving a criminal a one-time lashing than by removing him from society for a span of years? Do you really think you can shame people who know no shame (like liberals) into behaving as upstanding citizens? We already kill murderers at times, perhaps not often enough. We used to kill rapists and probably still should.
What did I exaggerate above? I got them from your OP. Point out my exaggerations.
Knee jerk emotions? Right. Your punishments seem to be based on an emotional need for revenge. You want to extract your revenge and then throw all those you do not kill back onto the streets so they can harm more people. If we do not have jails, we would have to take the person we think to be guilty to the place of judgement and punishment immediately and then let them go after they are shown not to be guilty or have endured their punishment. That would not really work too well.
Me a liberal? Not hardly. You must think everybody who does not share all your crazy ideas is a liberal. Try looking at the big picture rather than at just a few isolated snapshots that stir your emotions.
My sympathies are with the innocents and with the victims of crime. I think your suggestions would be counterproductive and would lead us farther down the path that ignores the Constitution and leads to greater lawlessness. They would also make us more like the countries my ancestors came to America to escape.
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 29 August 2012 at 6:28pm |
Charlie....Charlie....Charlie...
Bless your heart.........you don't even know that the system that we use now to punish criminals is based on revenge.
Do you know what the word "retribution" means?
Give this a look....
Retribution
Retribution is perhaps the most intuitive - and the most questionable - aim of punishment in the criminal law. Quite contrary to the idea of rehabilitation and distinct from the utilitarian purposes of restraint and deterrence, the purpose of retribution is actively to injure criminal offenders, ideally in proportion with their injuries to society, and so expiate them of guilt.
The impulse to do harm to someone who does harm to you is older than human society, older than the human race itself (go to the zoo and watch the monkey cage for a demonstration.) It's also one of the most powerful human impulses - so powerful that at times it can overwhelm all else. One of the hallmarks of civilization is to relinquish the personal right to act on this impulse, and transfer responsibility for retribution to some governing body that acts, presumably, on behalf of society entire. When society executes retribution on criminals by means of fines, incarceration or death, these punishments are a social expression of the personal vengeance the criminal's victims feel, rationally confined (it is hoped) to what is best for society as a whole.
Of course there are more sophisticated ways of thinking about retribution, and it's a good idea to be familiar with them since a judge (and that other kind of judge, the criminal law professor) is unlikely to accept "because it's a natural impulse" as justification for retribution in punishment. And with good reason.
While "it's natural" tends not to carry much weight in the criminal law, "it's morally right" can. Moral feelings and convictions are considered, even by the criminal law, to be some of the most powerful and binding expressions of our humanity. In binding criminal trial juries to restrict guilty verdicts to situations of the highest certainty, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is also often described as "to a moral certainty." It is to their moral feelings of what is truly right that jury members are asked look before delivering a verdict. It's perhaps not too much of a stretch, then, to argue that it's morally right to make criminals suffer as their victims have suffered, if that's the way one's moral certainty points.
No matter what one's moral feelings are about inflicting deliberate harm on a human being, the majority of the U.S. citizenry still holds that it's right to exact retribution on criminal offenders, sometimes even to the point of death. This is almost certainly true of the majority of victims, and their loved ones, for whom equanimity becomes more and more difficult depending on the severity of the crime. What rape victim does not wish to see her attacker suffer? What parent does not hate the one who killed their child? The outrage that would result from leaving these passions for revenge unsatisfied might be seen as a dramatic failure of the entire criminal justice system. It's a good argument for retributive justice, then, that in this world public vengeance is necessary in order to avoid the chaos ensuing from individuals taking revenge into their own hands. And, until the moral certainty of a majority of society points towards compassion rather than revenge, this is the form the criminal law must take.
Now Charlie....... you can "cherry pick" your way through what is written above.....or you can attempt to understand just what I am getting at.
The law today is not fair...........trials are not fair......... and punishment is not fair...
.......................towards the tax payers......the poor.......the victims of crimes.
Did you know that the average sentence for a rapist is about 8 years?
Do you have daughters?........................I do............... good kids............and both are mothers to our grandchildren...............we love them more than air itself.
Should anyone rape them I believe that they should die.............................if I was all about "revenge" as you keep typing on your tear soaked keyboard........the they would not even make it to trial.
....but answer this truthfully....... if your daughters were raped would you accept an 8 year sentence as payment for the crime and then the scum would go free?
How about if your son........your 10 year old son was killed by a dunk driver......... would you accept a 2 year sentence on the clown who ran him over and killed him?
If some azzhole steals your lawnmower should he just get probation and you get.......well..... you get nothing under the law the way it is these days.
So let me tell you what you would see if we really wanted to "take a bite out of crime" if the clown who stole your lawnmower was caught.
First off.......there would not be any long drawn out dog and pony show trial that costs "we the people" a sheet pot of money to get the ball rolling on making things right.
Oh! There would be holding jails for scum awaiting trial........and woe be tied the county prosecuter who kept bringing people to who they could not prove were guilty.
Anyway....once the "Guilty Basstard"  was convicted and within one hour sentenced he or she...... would be taken to a holding cell area to await execution of sentence......most of which would take place the following day.........none of this "cry me a river"......."liberal trail of tears" bullballyhoo.....let's get er' done!
Your lawnmover thief would get his stealin' azz beat with a bullwhip............ he would get cut down and be allowed to clean his stealin' azz off in the county shower and then leave.
But the real good news is that he would still be financially responsible "TO YOU" for the lawnmower he stole "FROM YOU"!
Do you have a problem with that?
And if he doesn't pay you........OH BOY.......he would get another azz whoopin'....... just not gentle like before.....and he would still have to pay you for what he stole from you!
Do you have a problem with that?
Hey! If you do....you are either a "super liberal"........ who never had anyone steal from you....or you are a career criminal who's sociopathic personality only regrets being caught and punished.........and to hell with the victim.
I would not fear a system where "punishment" is REAL.....simply because I really don't break the law...........nor do any of my children.....or grandchildren.
......you obviously do.....
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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Charlie
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Posted: 29 August 2012 at 7:54pm |
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You are reaching new depths of confusion.
The civil justice system is not based on revenge, retribution, or whatever you call it. You have no been paying attention. The UCMJ may be, but the civil justice system is based on rehabilitation. It is designed to turn bad people into dead bad people, very old harmless people, bad people isolated from the public, or rehabilitated people who pose no threat to society. It is unfortunate that it fails far too often.
I find it hard to believe that you would think that whipping some dude who stole your lawn mower would convince him to quite stealing lawnmowers. The whipping and payment to you for the one he stole would just be the cost of doing business. (Do you beat your daughters with a belt if they misbehave? I bet that does not work either.)
You sure are high and mighty suggesting that I am a lawbreaker because I do not agree with your ideas about the legal system. You are also setting yourself up for a fall is you think that you can predict the future behavior of your children and grandchildren. Pride goeth before the fall. I hope your offspring do not let you down and I hope that they would be subjected to my style of justice instead of yours if they do.
You suggest that I am a lawbreaker because I fear the consequences of your style of punishment. Quite the opposite. I fear that the consequences of your style of punishment would not protect me from those who make a living breaking the law.
I always thought you had a somewhat better grasp on reality that you are exhibiting in this thread. I also thought you had greater respect for the Constitution that you swore to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Edited by Charlie - 29 August 2012 at 7:59pm
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 29 August 2012 at 9:23pm |
Charlie wrote:
You are reaching new depths of confusion.
The civil justice system is not based on revenge, retribution, or whatever you call it. You have no been paying attention. The UCMJ may be, but the civil justice system is based on rehabilitation. It is designed to turn bad people into dead bad people, very old harmless people, bad people isolated from the public, or rehabilitated people who pose no threat to society. It is unfortunate that it fails far too often. |
Oh Bless your heart Charlie.........
Charlie wrote:
I find it hard to believe that you would think that whipping some dude who stole your lawn mower would convince him to quite stealing lawnmowers. The whipping and payment to you for the one he stole would just be the cost of doing business. (Do you beat your daughters with a belt if they misbehave? I bet that does not work either.) |
I'll tell ya what........ you come up here...steal my lawn mover.....I catch you.....I'll bull whip you and then you tell us all if ....with the possibility of getting another bull whipping...if you would ever steal another lawn mower again ! 
Would you allow someone to steal your lawn mower and not do anything about it?
As far as all my children goes...I have never as much as layed a hand on any one of them.....I taught them from when they are little that "Fairness is the alter at which we all worship" and if they don't want to be treated badly then they themselves must treat others well to start with.
Charlie wrote:
You sure are high and mighty suggesting that I am a lawbreaker because I do not agree with your ideas about the legal system. You are also setting yourself up for a fall is you think that you can predict the future behavior of your children and grandchildren. Pride goeth before the fall. I hope your offspring do not let you down and I hope that they would be subjected to my style of justice instead of yours if they do. |
I can't say for sure if you are a arch villian....a mental defective....nincompoop......a staunch liberal demorat..... or just a sociopath......... maybe a combination of all the above.
You could be the "Son of Sully"........or just a "special friend" of "Jefro the Drunk".....and that could be the reason why you constantly cherry pick.....won't answer anything asked of you....have more whine than the Nappa Valley....... talk funny and act weird!
Charlie wrote:
You suggest that I am a lawbreaker because I fear the consequences of your style of punishment. Quite the opposite. I fear that the consequences of your style of punishment would not protect me from those who make a living breaking the law. |
Nah Charlie....... I do believe that your just confused and very uneducated about the 8th ammendment.....and what we got now breeds more criminals than it scares off.
What I offer is a serious version of the "Scared Straight" program to try to scare kids from becoming the criminal who might decide to slit your throat in the middle of the middle of the might while robbing your house/appartment/refrigerator box....
Charlie wrote:
I always thought you had a somewhat better grasp on reality that you are exhibiting in this thread. I also thought you had greater respect for the Constitution that you swore to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. |
Charlie,Charlie,Charlie.......... I do have a great grasp of reality.......I am also a really good negotiator as well....
I talk to congressman and senators quite a bit.....I have swayed more than one governor to seeing things my way and creating legislation to do the bidding of myself and those who think like me.......this is just something that I would love to see become law in whole, but I am realistic enough to know that not all of what I want is going to happen....at least not right away.
Too much money is spent from the ...now bare...coffers of "we the people"..... and that must stop.
Hey ...enjoy your life....and please........leave your lawn mower out....I need a new one! 
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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Charlie
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Posted: 29 August 2012 at 11:45pm |
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My lawn mower is under my house. Steal it and the law will take care of you. I would certainly do something, but that something would be legal. I value my freedom more than my mower.
I hope I am on the jury during your trial for bullwhipping a petty thief. That crime would be greater than stealing the mower since a bullwhip can easily kill a person. Perhaps you and the thief could share cells at the prison.
You are a dangerous person. You are certainly not a conservative wanting to take the law into your own hands. The Constitution offers some protection against people like you.
Governors do not create legislation, legislators do.
What questions have I failed to answer?
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dontcatchmany
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Posted: 30 August 2012 at 5:27am |
Gosh fellas,
I will haul my lawn tractor to your yards and do the mowing....just leave a six pack of bottled Michelob Ultra iced down...  ....two six packs if you want to have a few too.
And I ain't gonna do no weed eating....my feet will not let me do that....gotta sit on my barse to mow. 
And I ain't gonna steal nothing...my mamma would find a way from the grave to haunt the hell out of me!
Edited by dontcatchmany - 30 August 2012 at 5:29am
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Straits, N.C.
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drumchaser
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Posted: 30 August 2012 at 6:33am |
Just don't end up in the paper like Jeff Weaks. He hasn't posted since his mishap, guess he's through with us.
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Charlie
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Posted: 30 August 2012 at 7:53am |
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My wife likes to mow the yard. I got her a new self propelled electric start rear bagger this spring. Mess with it and she will take a fly swatter to you before she calls the cops. She is big into revenge. I have plenty of bail money to get her out of jail.
I have not noticed DWI around lately. Since liberals have no shame, he must be so proud of his newly found fame that he thinks he is too good to associate with us lower forms of humanity
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PiratesAboard
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Posted: 30 August 2012 at 9:04am |
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"Winners win, and losers make excuses. It's as simple as that." Joe Garagiola
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drumchaser
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Posted: 30 August 2012 at 9:21am |
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Pirates/Charlie, the ole boys reading, he just ain't playin:
Member Profile - jeffreyweeks Active Stats Username: jeffreyweeks Group: Pro Ladder Group: Primary Ladder Group Account Status: Active Joined: August 26 2003 at 10:00pm Last Visit: August 28 2012 at 9:58pm Newsletter Subscription: Points: 5259 Posts: 5199 [1.58 posts per day] Find Posts: Find Members Posts Answer: 0 Thanked: 10 Status: offline Age: 43 Location: United States
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 2:20pm |
After making a few polls of my own.........if you believe in polls.......and the results are that it appears that the majority of americans would accept that all criminal action be dealt with swiftly and.....for the guilty......... with definite physical punishment.
.....and no.....I didn't do my polling at a police convention.... 
For all too many years..... punishiment in this country has been extremely lopsided or too lengthy.... absolutely meaningless............too costly....or just nonexsistant.
Let's see! Place a person of little to no means at all in jail for 5 years is about a meaningless punishment which is simply too costly for the taxpayers.
And what does it cost?
Out on the "Left Coast".....
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California’s Annual Costs to Incarcerate an Inmate in Prison |
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2008-09 |
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Type of Expenditure |
Per Inmate Costs |
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Security |
$19,663 |
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Inmate Health Care |
$12,442 |
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Medical care |
$8,768 |
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Psychiatric services |
1,928 |
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Pharmaceuticals |
998 |
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Dental care |
748 |
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Operations |
$7,214 |
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Facility operations (maintenance, utilities, etc.) |
$4,503 |
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Classification services |
1,773 |
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Maintenance of inmate records |
660 |
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Reception, testing, assignment |
261 |
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Transportation |
18 |
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Administration |
$3,493 |
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Inmate Support |
$2,562 |
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Food |
$1,475 |
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Inmate activities |
439 |
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Inmate employment and canteen |
407 |
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Clothing |
171 |
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Religious activities |
70 |
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Rehabilitation Programs |
$1,612 |
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Academic education |
$944 |
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Vocational training |
354 |
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Substance abuse programs |
313 |
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Miscellaneous |
$116 |
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Total |
$47,102 |
....and still we have buffoons who wonder why we are going broke in this country?
I asked the honest opinion of 5 miscreants.....if you believe that there's a chance of a miscreant being honest  .......... who have run afoul of the law for driving while awash in a sea of intoxicants ....if they have ever drank and drove after the punishment under the present laws......All save one said that they do it weekly since they stop at bars on the way home........ the one who denied such endevors didn't consider driving home after drinking and fishing to be the same.....though after further "clarification" he now uderstands that no matter what you activities might be....drinking and driving....is still "drinking and driving"! 
None of these rascals thought much of the punishment had to them and that's why it really never enters their mind when they imbibe.
I then asked them all "IF" they would be so cavalier about DUI if their punishment was a quick trial followed by a first class bullwhipping?
.....and if they were caught again the "second" punishment wouldn't be so kind and gentle like the first.
ALL stated that it would be a cold day in hell before they would ever drink and drive.
Now! For those of you "bleeding hearts" out there.....it doesn't mean that if you decide to litter that you would be rounded up and bullwhipped.
.....that would just be rediculous and something that some cry-baby would conjure up to distort what is trying to be said here.
....nope.....that slob might have to pick up litter for a weekend.
And if that is "TOO" harsh for anyone then too bad!
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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downeaster
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 2:29pm |
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Looks like the medical providers are soaking the taxpayers of California if you ask me if they are indeed charging that much to provide health care to a typical inmate. Look at all the jobs the prison systems create in the different areas. One of the few job creators that has not relocated in China.
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pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 3:43pm |
downeaster wrote:
Looks like the medical providers are soaking the taxpayers of California if you ask me if they are indeed charging that much to provide health care to a typical inmate. Look at all the jobs the prison systems create in the different areas. One of the few job creators that has not relocated in China. |
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Hahahahahahahahahahahha 
"DE"....
So you choose to search for that one rose 50 yards deep in the rose bush....
but when you pull back your arm it's all chewed up pardner......
Sure! Prisons may make jobs, but they deplete the treasury dry of all the funds that "we the people" have to keep stocking it with over and over again.
The form of punishment that I offer is a "one time" cost that is extremely effective.
Maybe if we didn't have to house so many criminals and waste so much money there would be opportunities elsewhere?
Think about how many prisoners there are and times it by 47K!!!!!
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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thrdmn
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 6:12pm |
downeaster wrote:
Looks like the medical providers are soaking the taxpayers of California if you ask me if they are indeed charging that much to provide health care to a typical inmate. |
So DE looks at the chart BB posted and it's the doctors he gets mad at - not the criminal inmates and not the legal system nor prison system that coddles them.
downeaster wrote:
Look at all the jobs
the prison systems create in the different areas. |
In fact, it is the prison system upon which he heaps praise for being job creators.
downeaster wrote:
One of the few job
creators that has not relocated in China. |
And they're not just any job creators; they're the best kind of job creators because they "create" jobs right here in the USA.  Ole Thyroid Man walks away shaking his head and pondering how 3 sentences can get progressively stoopider and stoopider like a great big crescendo of stoopid (or decrescendo depending on how you look at it. Maybe it's neither. Maybe it's a DEcrescendo). I wonder who he voted for in 2008. But he doesn't remember.  He can however remember that doctors are bad, bad bad!  Convicted felons, not so bad.
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“But resist, we much… we must… and we will much… about… that… be committed.” – Al Sharpton, August 9, 2011
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downeaster
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 7:02pm |
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Just thought it was strange that they have to spend over 20K per year on inmates that are locked up. Hell, with my heart disease, bad back, bad teeth, arthritis, and a host of other things that plague old Farts like me, there is only one year that I remeber being charged over 20K for medical bills. Course we got to remember, them are gov jobs and saving money is not much of a priority be it democrat or republican.
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pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered
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dontcatchmany
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 8:00pm |
Dang de, is that all you have wrong with you medically.....In June I had my 26th surgery in something like 16-17 years.
Heck had one day with just the surgery costing something like 45-50 grand and 10 days of hospital stay at over 100k....that does not count all the other doctors and labs and such that had to get their dibs too....something between 250k and 300k. A screw up by the office of the doctors and a lot of mis-communication cost me 35+ K out of pocket when the insurance would have covered it if the doctors office had not screwed up the records and billing for a year and a half. Even with a lawyer I had to pay something like 35k out of pocket. The doctors themselves were good but the business office is/was abysmal....never use ECU Physicians....at least I still got my right leg......so what price can you put on being able to walk even if it hurts and there is a significant limp.
As for the prisoners, I still believe that they should be put to work making money for the state......kinda like Shawshank Redemption only the state gets the bucks legally......work em till they drop...make em grow most of their own food or let em starve.....but then, I might be considered a meanie.
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 10:05pm |
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Agree that they should be forced to work at something. Growing their own food sounds like a good suggestion and why do prisoners need better health care than most Americans that obey the laws. You also made a good point about the extroidinay high cost of healthcare when one needs it. Dam, We can not afford to pay that kind of money at least Ol DE cant.
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pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered
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Big Basstard
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Posted: 01 September 2012 at 10:20pm |
downeaster wrote:
Agree that they should be forced to work at something. Growing their own food sounds like a good suggestion and why do prisoners need better health care than most Americans that obey the laws. You also made a good point about the extroidinay high cost of healthcare when one needs it. Dam, We can not afford to pay that kind of money at least Ol DE cant. |
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"DE"...
You sure could afford it......
...just quit spending countless billions upon billions for housing criminals for years in a system that is a joke.
....and while you're at it...kick all the dead weight off of welfare who really don't deserve it.
Start there and then go after anything else that you would see as a waste of money.
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"ALL TYRANNY NEEDS TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD IS FOR PEOPLE OF GOOD CONSCIENCE TO REMAIN SILENT". - Thomas Jefferson
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downeaster
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Posted: 02 September 2012 at 9:43am |
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BB, I agree that our gov be it local, state or Fed does waste an awful lot of money but most of that waste goes in to some ones bank account. Its just seems to be a lot more obvious when the money is peed away on the bums and lazy arses. Having said that, NO! we can not afford to keep paying redicoulous medical bills tha we all get when we enter a hospital. A freeking Hospital can not justify charging my wife 2500 dollars for a freeking pair of forceps that can be put in an autoclave to be used over and over again. They would not allow her to take her own prescribed medication while staying there overnite but instead charged her nearly a hundred dollars for medication that she normally pays about 1 dollar per day for. Thats not WASTE!, Thats being ripped off by our medical providers.
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pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered
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