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Miniature facts reveal the truth....

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Ray Brown View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 March 2016 at 11:54am
Watch this video. It was done to show how an otter trawl works and was done to show how it works in real shallow water so sunlight could illuminate it.

But even in such sunlight it shows the dark side of trawling that has been condemned by 99% of all scientific studies ever done on trawling from by catch issues, to destroying benthonic communities, to destroying grass beds.

In Pamlico Sound we allow boats to pull four of these at one time with a total opening width of 220'. The doors that hold these open in this miniature version are symbolic of those steel doors you see on those steel trawlers that work our sounds some often as big as 8' in length. Just look at them the next time you are in Beaufort, New Bern, Morehead, Swansboro, Belhaven, Wanchese, or wherever you find them. From this video and then looking at the size of real ones there is no wonder why the comparison to Caterpillar blades is considered a correct one. They are much easier to find in NC than any other east coast state because we are the only one that allows them to do this on the inside.

Watch the little chain turn over shells on the bottom, and watch the doors dig into the benthonic community and watch as the whole thing goes through a grass bed and see for yourself the sediment that is re-suspended in miniature and realize in the real world there is much more and not only does sediment kill shell fish beds, it re-suspends organic material that gives food to bacteria that when eating robs oxygen from the water and causes anoxic conditions at certain times which causes fish kills beyond just by catch.

Thanks to the person who sent it to me. You know who you are, but this toy shows how devastating real ones are.


Baby Trawler Teaches Lessons to Adults!

Edited by Ray Brown - 24 March 2016 at 1:00pm
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 12:24pm
And if that wasn't instructive enough then please go to Craig's List and find what NCFA has been saying happens all the time as they have tried to equate wild caught foraging fishermen to farmers.

From Chowan County the land of Steinberg! Talk to NC Farm Bureau for possible financing because they evidently believe in such things as "Farmers of the Sea". I'll let you ask them if they believe in global warming or climate change because that topic is

Universal Flounder Planter Attachement

Edited by Ray Brown - 24 March 2016 at 12:52pm
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glacierbaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 12:42pm
Is that Michael Phelps doing the camera work?
"You can never elevate your own character by stepping on someone else's."

"Never argue with a man who loves the sound of his own voice."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ray Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 12:50pm
No.....it was done by the folks who did the Munchkin sequence from The Wizard of Oz!
I am a native of NC. The "bycatch captial of the east coast of the US". Our legislature lets us kill more fish for no reason than any other Atlantic Coast state. I hope they are proud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 1:31pm
This video is also good-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW4B_XqbUtI&ebc=ANyPxKpnfhzFVcAWjAmgYd-yVBfZhxWrO36gE-EgEbNU_9rREV753tocpO-UObix0_k8zIZc7-S-xZuvmlNPd4AnVS3wEZhRxg

Don't think for a minute that our NC bycatch ratio looks like the one shown in this "cherry picked" industry sponsored video by the Southern Shrimp Alliance.

The youtube video below is what a real NC bycatch ratio looks like.  You can even hear the boat crew brag in the audio about how good the shrimp catch looks.  The crew felt so good about this haul that they filmed it themselves and posted it on public media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLl4GSZLqGU

Here is a still shot from the industry video at 3:05.  These gulf coast doors are small in comparison to the size of the doors used in the Pamlico Sound.




Why does NC allow these industrial size "bulldozers" in our internal estuarine nursery areas to re-suspend sediment and destroy our important bottom structures such as submerged aquatic vegetation and oyster reefs.



Compare the typical NC shrimp trawler to the boat size that was recently seen and used in the internal waters of Louisiana.  

ALSO NOTE
that the small Louisiana boat is a skimmer trawler that doesn't use otter trawl doors at all.





Here is an example of larger skimmer trawlers used in Louisiana waters-





Why does NC have the most liberal commercial fishing rules on the East and Gulf coasts.  NC rules are so liberal that boats from VA, SC, GA, Fla and the Gulf states come to NC to trawl in our internal estuarine waters.  Those states do not even come close to allowing what NC allows. 

This isn't about protecting mom-n-pop commercial fishermen, this is about protecting and enabling a handful of large fish dealers to buy cheap shrimp. 

FV Forgiven- photo taken in NC 2015.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3ghlWqM3KY














Vessel ID Vessel Name Permit Mail Recipient Address City State Zipcode Effective Date Expiration Date

1118926 FORGIVEN SPA GERALD N MILLER AND DENISE M MILLER LLC 7509 MARKET ST SOUTHPORT FL 32409-3338 9/1/2015 8/31/2016














It would be a good idea for Sec. van der Vaart to have someone at DEQ review the DMF's Mission Statement versus the division's actual management practices.




and don't think for a minute that a TED (turtle excluder device) works all the time under typical trawling conditions when rigged by the typical NC crew.  These are all turtles taken on NC based shrimp trawlers.




















Edited by Rick - 24 March 2016 at 5:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 7:51pm

Miniature facts: 

From seeing the parade of shrimp boats heading to the Pamlico several times while tarpon fishing on Sunday afternoons, the typical NC boat is hardly the ~ 80' steel-hulled trawlers in your pics.

https://svseaventure.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/a-shrimper-taking-a-break.jpg

The red hull Colten Scott has permits for scallop, summer flounder, ocean quahog, surf clan, scup and others.  Hardly the “typical typical NC shrimp trawler.” 

Guessing the Forgiven is similar judging by the “shucking house” behind the cabin and the tall booms. 

And surely your typical LA shrimping boat (in the insert) isn’t outboard powered. Wink

And you know shrimpers don’t trawl in areas of SAVs and oyster reefs.

BTW - Newport River has a small fleet of skimmer trawls during shrimping season.

You present this to Legislatures and Jerry Schill will eat you alive, just like you could if commercials  show all tows with 98% shrimp. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 8:01pm
BW,
If you are out fishing then the little boats are able to shrimp and for you to view.

On those days you are sippin' Crown Royal cause it blowin' those oceanic trawlers are still working.  They leave the dock on Monday and fish all week, never returning each day. These boats belong in the ocean.
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 8:03pm
Why is that guy trying to mash that turtle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaitWaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

BW,
If you are out fishing then the little boats are able to shrimp and for you to view.

On those days you are sippin' Crown Royal cause it blowin' those oceanic trawlers are still working.  They leave the dock on Monday and fish all week, never returning each day. These boats belong in the ocean.

No argument from me.  Those square, close set waves of the Pamico are prolly barely an annoyance for the big 'ens. 

Hyperbole just annoys me particularly when some of the same folks accuse the commercials of it (and they do.)

And prefer sipping Buffalo Trace.  Wink

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2016 at 11:23pm





Hyperbole- hardly.

My post is about inside trawling in our estuaries.  If you'd like to compare notes on the number of boats observed that ply the waters of the lower Neuse River and the Pamlico Sound, I'll gladly compare those notes and photos. I'm willing to bet that my observations will have two more zeros than yours.

Your point "The red hull Colten Scott has permits for scallop, summer flounder, ocean quahog, surf clan, scup and others. Hardly the “typical NC shrimp trawler.”" is wrong.  That is the typical lower Neuse and Pamlico Sound trawler, especially when weighted for percent of total shrimp landed and the associated detrimental effect on our strategic habitats and total bycatch.  It doesn't have to be a steel hulled trawler, there are large wooded vessels pulling equally as damaging gear.

A didn't say that the outboard powered boat was the "typical" inside trawler in Louisiana.  I said it was an example of boats being used.  I followed that with a photo of larger boats.  The lower Neuse from Oriental to the Pamlico Sound and all of the Pamlico Sound currently has no restrictions on shrimp trawl head rope length and it is common to see the ocean trawlers working those waters pulling four nets with 220 and more feet of total head rope length. 

Louisiana has the following rule for inside waters-
In inshore waters vessels may use one trawl measuring 50 feet or less
in length along the corkline and 66 feet or less along the lead line; or
two trawls which shall not exceed 25 feet each along the corkline, 33
feet or less along the lead line and have trawl doors no larger than 8
feet in length and 43 inches in height; or two trawls which shall not
exceed 25 feet each along the corkline, 33 feet along the lead line and
have no more than two outer trawl doors no larger than eight feet in
length and 43 inches in height and no more than two inner sled doors,
EXCEPT that each vessel may, in addition, pull a test trawl.


As far as your statement- "And you know shrimpers don’t trawl in areas of SAVs and oyster reefs."  You need to re-read my statement.  I said that re-suspension of sediment was destroying our SAV beds and oyster reefs.  Both are well documented results of the impacts of sediment.  Just Google it, plenty of reading on the subject.  You might start with the CHPP.  It's well documented there.  You'll also find that the CHPP clearly states that not all nursery areas are protected.  Trawling is only prohibited in "designated" nursery areas.  So, your statement that shrimpers don't trawl in SAVs and oyster areas isn't accurate.  You know this, why are you intentionally misleading people?  It's a game of semantics that the division has played for years.

Bernie, just as in shrimp boat observations, I'll be glad to compare pages of notes and hours of work on nursery area classifications within the Pamlico Sound.

As typical, you come to the table with deflections and defense of the absolute travesty that is being played out by commercial fishing practices against our public trust resource.   I wish you were as passionate about protecting that resource for the future good of all of NC citizens.  We must implement reasonable gear restriction measures to stop critical habitat destruction and substantially reduce bycatch in order to achieve sustainable harvest.







Edited by Rick - 29 March 2016 at 11:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chriselk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2016 at 7:54am
We must change this culture of maximum extraction of Marine Resources to a culture of conservation of Marine Resources.  

Instead of a DMF policy of how can we maximize the short term economic benefit to commercial fishing, a policy of protection and restoration of the resource must be implemented.  This must come from Jones Street and it is up to us lead-the politicians will follow or we will boot them out.  

Marine Resources are not a political football and personally I am tired of getting lied to and then ignored.  Fish have no political party.
The above comments are my personal opinion and do not represent those of any organizations or agencies I may be a member of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sea byrd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2016 at 8:27am
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

We must change this culture of maximum extraction of Marine Resources to a culture of conservation of Marine Resources.  

Instead of a DMF policy of how can we maximize the short term economic benefit to commercial fishing, a policy of protection and restoration of the resource must be implemented.  This must come from Jones Street and it is up to us lead-the politicians will follow or we will boot them out.  

Marine Resources are not a political football and personally I am tired of getting lied to and then ignored.  Fish have no political party.

Best post of the decade  






<div style="display:none">fiogf49gjkf0d
Favorite pastime. Catching fish and eating the few fish I am allowed to keep. At least I am not killing four times the number I eat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FishCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2016 at 9:12am
Bravo Chris. Well said.  Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2016 at 11:40am
Originally posted by chriselk chriselk wrote:

We must change this culture of maximum extraction of Marine Resources to a culture of conservation of Marine Resources.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2016 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Redfish Redfish wrote:

Why is that guy trying to mash that turtle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kshivar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2016 at 11:33am
He's probably about to cut his throat so he won't foul his net again
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